Body re-composition / fat vs muscle

Rainmatter Health
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@NithinKamath

At the outset, Thanks for the suggestion to trigger this topic for suggestions / insights from the smart / health - fitness passionate folks here …

all - Nice to e-meet and look forward to be in touch.

Context :
I have been a passionate sportsman all through but have been a dedicated Tennis player for the last 2 decades. I do some running, trekking as cross training interests to keep fit.

In the last 4 months, in order to be more efficient on the tennis courts, I wanted to shed some weight to come to the ideal zone and in that quest researched / read / listened to make a framework for myself which included Intermittent fasting and slightly conscious diet. It has worked superbly and have shed from 78 kgs to to 69 kgs ( 19 % fat ) for the 175 cm to almost ideal zone. In the process, I have lost fat but have also have lost muscle ( 62% fat reduction and 38% muscle reduction )

My end goal is to continue to persist, learn and learn Tennis as a main passion-sport… ( I’m willing to do other things gym, run, strength training, weights as cross training )

Clarifications:

1)I have read about body recomposition where you can reduce fat and increase muscle at the same time. However, they are mostly suited for non-veg diet / foreign recipes :slight_smile: What would be the general suggestion of nutrition for body recomposition for typical indian vegetarians ?

2)I understand one should not do too much cardio in the body recomposition phase and must concentrate on HIIT. So, Tennis is possibly a mix of cardio and HIIT…Should I reduce Tennis during this phase ?

Having met the goals, should I continue with the intermittent fasting ( 16-8 worked for me ) ? I personally feel I can possibly reduce fat further from 19 to around 15% . However, I fear the muscle loss in the process. So, whats the advice ?

3)Whats the ideal fat vs muscle mass ration for amateur athletes ( tennis players ) ? It depends on the sports but I understand professional athletes can be around 10-15%…

4)There is little information about Intermittent fasting along with body recomposition phase for Indian - Vegetarians. So, any suggestions, advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance for the inputs / insights from this esteemed and health_fitness_passionate folks …

Thanks
Vadi

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Hi Vadi, not an expert, but recently we had a call with Fittr founder JC, thanks to Sagar, And the purpose was to validate many of our thought processes behind solving the problem - Making quality Healthcare affordable for the bottom 90% of Indians. Hence built a small tool to create incentive-driven Health Insurance. In other words, the way, individuals are being incentivized to keep a good Credit Score (they get better interest rates and bigger loan sizes). Individual should receive Health Insurance at a lower premium for taking care of their health.

In that regard, this body fat % is one of the Health Indicators that can unravel a lot about an individual’s health status. Having said that an ideal body fat % is a subjective reference as it can vary based on age, gender, locality etc. However, we discovered that taking one step further from body fat % to matching that with various objective data points is always a good way to evaluate health status.

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PS: Also, wanted to add, I was 95 at the start of 2022 and today, I am 68 KG, and I don’t remember doing anything special, except - eliminating sugar completely, exercising 5 days a week, and not consuming more than 2000 Cal :slight_smile:

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@vadiraj knowing your physique type and background, my suggestion would be.

  1. Start strength training, 4 to 5 days a week. Progressive increase of load.

  2. Meet an Endo. Unlike women, for whom there are physical symptoms when there is a hormonal imbalance, men don’t show any symptoms. My thyroid, Cortisol, D3, and Testosterone were all at sub-optimal levels. Supplements and dietary/lifestyle change to fix these has helped significantly. Now that I have done research on this, I think everyone over 40 needs to meet an Endo at least once a year.

  3. Working out without goals is a challenge. Looking good goals are more Vanity goals and easy for motivation to drop off. Another thing which is helping me quite a bit is to have one physical event to attend every quarter. Just training to do well in the event keeps me motivated. It was Hyrox in Aug, doing the swimming bit in a relay team with @Dilip and @vishnus at the half ironman next week at Goa. Want to do the summit at the Devilscircuit this December :wink: @adnanadeeb

  4. A trainer has been by far the best investment I have made till now. Brings so much accountability. If not a trainer, a good training partner also works, I guess.

  5. I think it is slightly harder with the Veg diet to get all the Macros, but I don’t think it is a big deal. There are so many Vegan fitness professionals today.

By the way suggest you read.

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I have done the 12 feet every time, but the 14 feet requires special skills. :slight_smile: This has been one obstacle I haven’t been able to get around in every devil circuit I have participated in.

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Thanks @Suman_Jile_Health ;

Congratulations on your own weight loss journey !

I can relate to your underwriting data points ( However, professional athletes will have < 10% fat and hence you should not penalise them ) ;

Thanks
Vadiraj

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Thanks @NithinKamath for the inputs. Few notes on the same.

vadiraj knowing your physique type and background, my suggestion would be.

  1. Start strength training, 4 to 5 days a week. Progressive increase of load.

< I’m slowing starting to be regular on this with couple of days a week but may not be able to do 5 days because of my Tennis Load >

  1. Meet an Endo. Unlike women, for whom there are physical symptoms when there is a hormonal imbalance, men don’t show any symptoms. My thyroid, Cortisol, D3, and Testosterone were all at sub-optimal levels. Supplements and dietary/lifestyle change to fix these has helped significantly. Now that I have done research on this, I think everyone over 40 needs to meet an Endo at least once a year.

< Thats a good suggestion to meet an Endo and may be a proactive medication / advice. However, based on the regular checks, the parameters are in ideal zones >

  1. Working out without goals is a challenge. Looking good goals are more Vanity goals and easy for motivation to drop off. Another thing which is helping me quite a bit is to have one physical event to attend every quarter. Just training to do well in the event keeps me motivated. It was Hyrox in Aug, doing the swimming bit in a relay team with Dilip and vishnus at the half ironman next week at Goa. Want to do the summit at the Devilscircuit this December :wink: @adnanadeeb

<
Absolutely 100% agree !

I have taken slightly different goals ; I run few marathon events and do high altitude himalayan treks just as a dip stick. Other than that, regular on the tennis goals to be competitive in the circuit in not only in the age category but minus 10 age category …

Based on your suggestion, I will take some strength goals

Devilscircult name itself is scary :slight_smile: but will find more about it

My Tennis nudge to you will continue ; Its a skills / strength / Endurance play :slight_smile: >>

  1. A trainer has been by far the best investment I have made till now. Brings so much accountability. If not a trainer, a good training partner also works, I guess.

< Yes I agree …>

  1. I think it is slightly harder with the Veg diet to get all the Macros, but I don’t think it is a big deal. There are so many Vegan fitness professionals today.

< Yes, slightly challenging but not impossible ; Djoko, Virat are the flag bearers >

By the way suggest you read.

<< I have already read this super book and onto couple of others on related topics >>

< Thanks again >

[/quote]

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Hey @vadiraj Good to see another working athelete here :slight_smile:
I’ve a bot that sends an alert everything marathon is mentioned. And i show up :wink:

Second everything @NithinKamath mentioned.
Few more things based on my personal experience. Not an expert opinion.

  1. Each of us have unique metabloism. Within the same family two brothers (same gender) can have different metabolic index. Understanding the way our metabolism works helped me figure my nutritional intervention. And if you’re an active sports enthusiasts, it’s even more important to understand fueling for performance and recovery. How do you understand that ? Work with a sports specific specialist/nutritionist. Paging @Docmranney here

This is a very nuanced goal considering current physiology, age and background to sports. Should seek out an expert on this.

This depends on sports. Endurance athletes usually are single digit. But good football and tennis players are also <12-15%. But they have been on it for a long time.
Changing the body composition as we become age group athletes have to be done very carefully. I’m between 12-13%. Honestly never made a conscious effort to be that. I do a lot of aerobic work and miles on the feet so burn a lot of fat. Yes, loose muscle too. And that’s an area i’m working right now for my next training goal.

Get a DEXA scan done. Meet a sports nutritionist. and have a plan tailored to your goals.

Btw, i know a guy who ran a 2:21 marathon with 73 body weight :slight_smile: here Spotify

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@NithinKamath when you scale the summit, thump your chest and scream that war cry !!! I will be ready with the camera crew :slight_:facepunch: :clap:

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Nice to see you here @vadiraj! And I can personally vouch for his smooth tennis play at his age of 48! :slight_smile:

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High Intensity Resistance Training (about 30 minutes once a week) with a couple of HIIT bouts (10 mins each) in a week is sufficient to build muscle and bring body fat down. The key is nutrition - sufficient protein, healthy fats, adequate micros (minerals, trace minerals and vitamins) plus antioxidants. And keep the carbs for a once a week cheat day. Targeted intermittent fasting is helpful too at different times. Vegetarians can meet this from diet but it is not easy on busy people - so fixing diet to the extent practical and then supplementation with additional protein and other stuff is the way to go.

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@adnanadeeb, how do I prepare for this? :slight_smile: Box jumps and short sprints is something I am planning to start with. Any other exercises?

Also, do you know any gym in Bangalore with a warped wall?

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@NithinKamath this year i am 100% confident you will ace it…now with that out of the way :facepunch: :muscle:here is what you should also work on…1. short sprints and 2. Pull ups and muscle ups.
A lot of runners manage to hold on to the top but because of not enough upper body strength cannot get themselves to rise to the top. Besides the above, just run with Positive energy and you cannot fail.

In terms of gyms in Bangalore where you can find the summit/warped wall…i think you can try chaos factory. these guys are good for people who are interested in calisthenics, parkour and ninja warrior course training.

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its happening this time…i know it :clap:

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Thanks @Dilip.Kumar These are useful inputs.

One other learning -
The typical weight + other parameter measurement equipments available for home use are not the ideal equipment. These can be used for directional and pattern towards reduction.

Just to compare, I used slightly sophisticated equipment from one of the companies and there was a difference.

DEXA scan is ideal as well…

Any suggestions for sports nutritionists ?

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hey @Issac ! Nice to see you here …It was super playing ; It was just the court difference that was in my favour ! You have a super game !

We should pull in more folks from here into our fraternity :slight_smile: ! With some patience, they will love Tennis in the long term…

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Absolutely! As an aside, we’ll compare notes in a few months on our respective experiments - I am focussing on a couple of more kgs muscle mass gain (+2.5 kg past 3 months) even as I restart competing in post-monsoon Bombay tournaments.

3 hours strength training + 3-4 hours per week of tennis is where I was at during monsoon season of Q3. Intend to keep the 3 hours strength training going now even as I up playing time to 6-7 hours per week. Will be interesting to see if the increased tennis activity offsets my potential muscle gain.

And yes, can’t wait for a rematch! :laughing: